What about putting web wide popularity in the context of time? I'm talking about social context and recommendations based "hot/not" stats - I'm interested to know what books/albums/dvds have gained the most links in a short period of time.
Dreaming too big? ;-)
Fraser
· 1 year ago
Never dreaming too big. That's what butter is all about, no?
You want hot/not stats across a period of time? So something akin to a simple presentation accompanying the popularity that shows recent trend?
i.e. if it's rising in popularity: hot, hotter, fire, jalepeno and if it's cooling: cold, colder, ice, that woman who always rejects my advances?
(aside: anyone trade baseball cards in the early 90's? remember the little arrow besides the price in the beckett guide? surprising how useful the simple up or down arrow was)
patwoodward
· 1 year ago
I'd like to see visual art (cover art/video) attached to all the music files/streams I access across the web. Thats the butta I want!
Fraser
· 1 year ago
you're listening to an mp3 on a blog and you want to see cover art and video associated with it?
there's a slight challenge in "recognizing" mp3s. If everyone used the newer version of the id3 tag then it would be easy. alas, not everyone does.
is the mp3 explicitly linked to an album for you? would images and videos for the artist suffice? or does it have to be focused on THE song?
Steffan Antonas
· 1 year ago
Now you're talkin....
Something akin to a simple presentation accompanying the popularity that shows trend information would be awesome and totally useful. Even a basic up or down arrow or a simple set of descriptive icons like "jalepeno" or "ice" would be great. Books and movies usually take some time to grow their popularity stats, so a new book that was being linked to a lot, for example, might not show up on a web-wide popularity comparison until after it's already mainstream. If a new book was getting a lot of buzz and links, I'd love to know that in real time so I could read it while the discussion is still hot and on-going. I'm sure people who blog about music and art (Am I right, Pat??) would find trending contexts useful too. Not to mention that it would increase my use of the smartlink buttons exponentially - gimme some more of that real-time dynamic contextual content!! That's the sweet buttah.
patwoodward
· 1 year ago
yes, trending contexts are interesting. I can use HypeM for checking out trend information for music that is being blogged though.
Is it hard to find accurate and up to the minute link to/blogged about trend info on books and movies? <Curious>
Fraser
· 1 year ago
HypeM is awesome for this, but doesn't it require visiting their page to consume the trend information? Sort of out of context, no?
Without having looked into it a great deal I suspect that there's a lot of great trend info out there. How much of it is readily accessible where the content is consumed?
Steffan Antonas
· 1 year ago
@Fraser - I agree that HypeM is out of context. I'd like to get that information at the point I consume that content.
@Pat - Don't know of ANY service that provides trending for books/audiobooks/movies. Do you?
patwoodward
· 1 year ago
@Fraser - out of context yes. But very accurate and well done. In my mind you'd have to do what they're doing better, but just bring it into context.
@Steffan - I don't know where I would look for that information.
Steffan Antonas
· 1 year ago
@Fraser + Pat - I've tried Googling for any services like HypeM for books and media other than music and can't come up with anything valuable. It seems like there's definitely an opportunity here.
@Pat - As far as the "vs HypeM" discussion - although a lot of people know about HypeM, I'd guess that the majority of people out there surfing the web don't. Maybe I'm wrong, I know it's popular, but as to HOW popular - dunno. I only say that because I just discovered it recently and I'm super active on the web. When you say that adaptiveblue would "have to do what they're doing better"...is that really true for most people do you think, or just for you? HypeM has such a comprehensive service, where you're getting links etc, it seems that you'd only go to the site if you're looking specifically FOR that kind of depth of information. Naturally, you'd hit HypeM before looking for smartlinks. That said, I think smartlinks are most useful when you're not engaging in that type of activity (i.e. digging and mining as an activity) - rather, they are most useful when you encounter an object that is unfamiliar for the very first time that sparks your curiosity.
There must be high level stats that you'd be interested in when you encounter an object for the very first time, no? What type of high level information would be useful to you when you encounter an album that you've never heard of and want to find out more about it? I think you've made some great points, I'd like to hear your thoughts on this.
patwoodward
· 1 year ago
You are right about the popularity of HypeM and when I say AdapitveBlue would have to "do it better" that might only be true if AdaptiveBlue smart links were music specific.
To answer your last question, given today's landscape of music on the web I would be most interested in how much a song has been blogged about. That gives me an idea of how many conversations are happening around this piece of music.
What would that take to make happen? Going to the source. I would see if some of your/our/AB's favorite music bloggers would like to use smartlinks to help build the stat engine. But, how in fact will that happen? Bloggers don't blog with last.fm and amazon links. They just blog with single mp3s. Is it possible to "watch" what songs are being talked about on say 10 music blogs and synch those songs up with their respective albums/artists. That artist data, collected from associated blogs, could then be served up in an artist smartlink pane.
What are your thoughts on this?
Fraser
· 1 year ago
Get the music bloggers to post mp3's with the newest id3 version. Not only would we then be able to identify the unique song/artist, but it would provide a tonne of structured data for other companies to innovate with.
Solving that problem makes everything you described possible.
Steffan Antonas
· 1 year ago
@Pat - There's your answer right there> Now how do we target those bloggers and give them clear incentives to use id3?
@Fraser - I'd be really interested to hear your thoughts on how to design and communicate incentives that get bloggers to use a new format. I'm sure it can be done, but it would require old-hats to change their habits a little, which is never easy.
patwoodward
· 1 year ago
@Fraser: cover art from a song's respective album is what would make the most sense as a starting point I think.
patwoodward
· 1 year ago
This discussion brings up another question in my mind. What type of media can most benefit from the context we're talking about here?
Fraser
· 1 year ago
Pat, this question - in one form or another - is one that we play around with in our minds on a regular basis.
We're starting to think of media as being represented by either the basic elemental atom or a representation of the media that's 1-degree away.
What do I mean by this?
Well, an mp3 that can be consumed within the blog post is the basic elemental atom. A link to the album on another site is a representation (or reference?) that's 1-degree away.
I think in each situation the contextual information that the individual wants is different.
Fraser
· 1 year ago
Now, to answer your question (with my previous comment as background) I think the type of media that can be consumed at the elemental level on the web (an mp3, not a movie) is the one that can most benefit from the type of context we're talking about.
Of course there are plenty of different contextual situations (the original point of this thread!) and depending on the media, there's a most beneficial context.
patwoodward
· 1 year ago
That reasoning makes sense. So, where do we go from here if there is an id3 tag issue? + what kind of contextual information would be helpful besides album art or it's popularity across the web?
AllMusic's database of info would be great if it could be tapped. Last.fm's wiki information on artists is also really well done and helpful too. Could that be utilized somehow in a contextual case?
Fraser
· 1 year ago
For music? I think it depends on whether you're interacting with the object or are 1-degree away.
If you've already consumed the track, you're probably less interested in overall popularity. Rather, you probably want more information about the artist (bio? other songs? tour dates?) you may be interested in seeing what others have said about the song.
If you're 1-degree away you do probably want popularity. A summary or description may be of interest as well. Seeing who has interacted with it may also be valuable because it's an implicit form of recommendation.
When you're 1-degree away the contextual information that's helpful is the info that answers the "should I explore this object further?" question.
When you're interacting with the object the contextual actions that are beneficial are the ones that simplify traditional next-steps.
All Comments
Dreaming too big? ;-)
You want hot/not stats across a period of time? So something akin to a simple presentation accompanying the popularity that shows recent trend?
i.e. if it's rising in popularity: hot, hotter, fire, jalepeno and if it's cooling: cold, colder, ice, that woman who always rejects my advances?
(aside: anyone trade baseball cards in the early 90's? remember the little arrow besides the price in the beckett guide? surprising how useful the simple up or down arrow was)
there's a slight challenge in "recognizing" mp3s. If everyone used the newer version of the id3 tag then it would be easy. alas, not everyone does.
is the mp3 explicitly linked to an album for you? would images and videos for the artist suffice? or does it have to be focused on THE song?
Something akin to a simple presentation accompanying the popularity that shows trend information would be awesome and totally useful. Even a basic up or down arrow or a simple set of descriptive icons like "jalepeno" or "ice" would be great. Books and movies usually take some time to grow their popularity stats, so a new book that was being linked to a lot, for example, might not show up on a web-wide popularity comparison until after it's already mainstream. If a new book was getting a lot of buzz and links, I'd love to know that in real time so I could read it while the discussion is still hot and on-going. I'm sure people who blog about music and art (Am I right, Pat??) would find trending contexts useful too. Not to mention that it would increase my use of the smartlink buttons exponentially - gimme some more of that real-time dynamic contextual content!! That's the sweet buttah.
Is it hard to find accurate and up to the minute link to/blogged about trend info on books and movies? <Curious>
Without having looked into it a great deal I suspect that there's a lot of great trend info out there. How much of it is readily accessible where the content is consumed?
@Pat - Don't know of ANY service that provides trending for books/audiobooks/movies. Do you?
@Steffan - I don't know where I would look for that information.
@Pat - As far as the "vs HypeM" discussion - although a lot of people know about HypeM, I'd guess that the majority of people out there surfing the web don't. Maybe I'm wrong, I know it's popular, but as to HOW popular - dunno. I only say that because I just discovered it recently and I'm super active on the web. When you say that adaptiveblue would "have to do what they're doing better"...is that really true for most people do you think, or just for you? HypeM has such a comprehensive service, where you're getting links etc, it seems that you'd only go to the site if you're looking specifically FOR that kind of depth of information. Naturally, you'd hit HypeM before looking for smartlinks. That said, I think smartlinks are most useful when you're not engaging in that type of activity (i.e. digging and mining as an activity) - rather, they are most useful when you encounter an object that is unfamiliar for the very first time that sparks your curiosity.
There must be high level stats that you'd be interested in when you encounter an object for the very first time, no? What type of high level information would be useful to you when you encounter an album that you've never heard of and want to find out more about it? I think you've made some great points, I'd like to hear your thoughts on this.
To answer your last question, given today's landscape of music on the web I would be most interested in how much a song has been blogged about. That gives me an idea of how many conversations are happening around this piece of music.
What would that take to make happen? Going to the source. I would see if some of your/our/AB's favorite music bloggers would like to use smartlinks to help build the stat engine. But, how in fact will that happen? Bloggers don't blog with last.fm and amazon links. They just blog with single mp3s. Is it possible to "watch" what songs are being talked about on say 10 music blogs and synch those songs up with their respective albums/artists. That artist data, collected from associated blogs, could then be served up in an artist smartlink pane.
What are your thoughts on this?
Solving that problem makes everything you described possible.
@Fraser - I'd be really interested to hear your thoughts on how to design and communicate incentives that get bloggers to use a new format. I'm sure it can be done, but it would require old-hats to change their habits a little, which is never easy.
We're starting to think of media as being represented by either the basic elemental atom or a representation of the media that's 1-degree away.
What do I mean by this?
Well, an mp3 that can be consumed within the blog post is the basic elemental atom. A link to the album on another site is a representation (or reference?) that's 1-degree away.
I think in each situation the contextual information that the individual wants is different.
Of course there are plenty of different contextual situations (the original point of this thread!) and depending on the media, there's a most beneficial context.
AllMusic's database of info would be great if it could be tapped. Last.fm's wiki information on artists is also really well done and helpful too. Could that be utilized somehow in a contextual case?
If you've already consumed the track, you're probably less interested in overall popularity. Rather, you probably want more information about the artist (bio? other songs? tour dates?) you may be interested in seeing what others have said about the song.
If you're 1-degree away you do probably want popularity. A summary or description may be of interest as well. Seeing who has interacted with it may also be valuable because it's an implicit form of recommendation.
When you're 1-degree away the contextual information that's helpful is the info that answers the "should I explore this object further?" question.
When you're interacting with the object the contextual actions that are beneficial are the ones that simplify traditional next-steps.